Latest Shouts In The Shoutbox -- View The Shoutbox · Rules Collapse  


Pages: (2) 1 2  ( Go to first unread post )
Add Reply
New Topic
New Poll

 Coal Power Opponents 'Delusional': PM
Charles
 Posted: Jul 16 2017, 09:52 AM
Quote


Rana Capillum


Group: Featured Blogers
Posts: 8099
Member No.: 17
Joined: 17-January 12

Status: Offline
Rep: 141 pts






Turnbull says coal opponents are 'delusional'

Updated: 2:48 pm, Saturday, 15 July 2017

user posted image

Addressing the Liberal National Party state convention in Brisbane, Mr Turnbull hit out at the state Labor government's 'reckless' plans to ensure Queensland's energy supply is carbon neutral by 2050 and said Australia had an interest in ensuring the future of coal.

'Those people who say coal and other fossil fuels have no future are delusional and they fly in the face of all of the economic forecasts,' he told the crowd of party faithful.

His sentiments were greeted with applause by the crowd, who had a day earlier passed a resolution urging a future state LNP government to promote and support the coal industry.

The convention is also considering a resolution to call on the Turnbull government to withdraw from the Paris Climate Accord, which is likely to be debated on Sunday.

Mr Turnbull devoted a significant portion of his 20-minute address to energy policy, warning of the impact of renewables on power prices and the security of the electricity grid.

He said Queensland's efforts to source 50 per cent of its electricity supply by 2030 would see it follow the path of South Australia, which has been hit by high prices and supply issues.

'We know what happens if you allow left-wing ideology and politics to drive your energy policy. You get unreliable and unaffordable power, and business is driven out of your State,' he told the crowd.

'Now, what the Palaszczuk government is seeking to do here is undermine your competitiveness in the interests of chasing green votes in the inner city and you can't allow them to get away with it, and we won't.'

However, Mr Turnbull did tell reporters after the meeting renewables will obviously have a part to play in the future of electricity generation.

'As any economist and any forecaster will tell you... the energy mix of the world in the future will include renewables.

'We are making the single biggest investment in renewables in snowy 2.0.', he said.

But his comments weren't free from criticism.

'Some of the targets set out would take this state (Qld) down the same road as South Australia, where they pursued highly ideological, unplanned ill-thought-out energy policies, that simply had the result of causing energy to be unaffordable and unreliable.'

'Our policy is based on economics and engineering not ideology and politics'.

Mr Turnbull said planning was the key in a renewable future.

'I don't want to give the South Australians a hard time, but they got to a point where they had so much wind power and zero storage, that on a windy day they could generate all their electricity with wind - the wind drops they generate none of it.

'You've now got the premier scrambling to buy a battery here... buying diesel powered generators - all in a rush.

'You've got to plan this carefully'.

Earlier, he said as the world's largest exporter of coal, Australia had an interest in demonstrating that clean-coal could play a role in a low-emissions energy future.


http://www.skynews.com.au/news/top-stories/2017/07/15/turnbull-says-coal-opponents-are--delusional-.html?ref=BP_RSS_top-stories_6_turnbull-says-coal-opponents-are--delusional-_150717

I have to agree with our PM on this.

--------------------
It is almost impossible to remember how tragic a place the world is when one is playing golf. - Robert Lynd

Golf and sex are the only things you can enjoy without being good at either of them. - Jimmy DeMaret
PMEmail
^
charka
 Posted: Jul 16 2017, 10:41 AM
Quote


Supremo Poster


Group: Active Member
Posts: 19702
Member No.: 11
Joined: 20-December 11

Status: Offline
Rep: 48 pts






He feels tha anger of people He will just use words first I,m gunna etc Trust him as much as a snake user posted image user posted image

This post has been edited by charka: Jul 16 2017, 10:47 AM
PMEmail
^
Bill
 Posted: Jul 17 2017, 01:15 PM
Quote


Diamond


Group: Active Member
Posts: 2163
Member No.: 85
Joined: 17-December 13

Status: Offline
Rep: 8 pts






Push for new coal-fired power station in Queensland 'nonsense' – state minister

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2017/jul/11/push-for-new-coal-fired-power-station-in-queensland-nonsense-state-minister

Queensland’s energy minister, Mark Bailey, says the state does not need a new coal-fired power station, branding the idea championed by federal Nationals “one of the most irresponsible policy propositions I’ve heard”.

The deputy prime minister, Barnaby Joyce, and the resources minister, Matt Canavan, are pushing for the federal government to fund or indemnify a new coal-fired power station in the state as part of the reworking of energy policy prompted by the Finkel review.

But Bailey called a new coal-fired power station for Queensland “nonsense”.

“We’ve got eight huge generators in Queensland,” he said. “We are the powerhouse of the nation. We put a gigawatt of power across our interconnector to prop up New South Wales during the heatwave.

“We have oodles of traditional base-load power in Queensland. To propose we need a ninth station is just absolute nonsense.

Bailey said any sensible analysis of trends in the energy market would conclude that the price of renewable technologies was dropping, and battery technology was coming on at pace.

He said the chief scientist, Alan Finkel, had told a Senate estimates hearing that it would be much more expensive to build a coal-fired power station than invest in large-scale renewables.

“The Australian Industry Group has said a new coal-fired power station – you’d need to double electricity prices to sustain it,” Bailey said.

“This is basic economics, but the federal government doesn’t want to know about real-world economics or what’s going on in the energy market right now, which is rapidly transforming and changing.”


It's an election year in QLD http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif and we've become used to the LNP 'flying kites' on proposals that they have no intention of following through on.

Anything to support their mantra that 'Coal is Good - Renewables are Baaaad'.

In the meantime, private investors, not taxpayer funds, are building solar farms right across the state. Someone must have told them that we are, after all, the Sunshine State. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif

On the Darling Downs, for example, we have $2Billion worth of 'Solar Farms' under construction. it is so large that the 'Coal Lobby' are suggesting that the infrastructure may not be sufficient to get that power to market.

While 'battery storage' is in the mix for the future, my understanding is that it's not even being considered for the current projects until it is required when existing 'coal fired' power stations reach the end of their life.

--------------------
It's a tough gig being the only duck in the shooting gallery
PM
^
lee
 Posted: Jul 17 2017, 02:56 PM
Quote


Klingonite


Group: Active Member
Posts: 6896
Member No.: 48
Joined: 15-February 12

Status: Offline
Rep: 17 pts






QUOTE
He said the chief scientist, Alan Finkel, had told a Senate estimates hearing that it would be much more expensive to build a coal-fired power station than invest in large-scale renewables.


More expensive to build. More green tape for coal fired power.

You notice he didn't go on to say the power would be cheaper or more reliable?

And of course all without adding in subsidies.

Check out South Australia electricity prices. Or the Germans, darling of the Green movement.

China the new green hope of climate change?

"When China halted plans for more than 100 new coal-fired power plants this year, even as President Trump vowed to “bring back coal” in America, the contrast seemed to confirm Beijing’s new role as a leader in the fight against climate change.

But new data on the world’s biggest developers of coal-fired power plants paints a very different picture: China’s energy companies will make up nearly half of the new coal generation expected to go online in the next decade.

These Chinese corporations are building or planning to build more than 700 new coal plants at home and around the world, some in countries that today burn little or no coal, according to tallies compiled by Urgewald, an environmental group based in Berlin. Many of the plants are in China, but by capacity, roughly a fifth of these new coal power stations are in other countries.

Over all, 1,600 coal plants are planned or under construction in 62 countries, according to Urgewald’s tally, which uses data from the Global Coal Plant Tracker portal.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-coal-plants-climate-change.html

--------------------
Life is neither a race to the end, nor a slow ramble whose sole aim is longevity

Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
PM
^
Bill
 Posted: Jul 17 2017, 03:12 PM
Quote


Diamond


Group: Active Member
Posts: 2163
Member No.: 85
Joined: 17-December 13

Status: Offline
Rep: 8 pts






Hi lee

You notice he didn't go on to say the power would be cheaper or more reliable?

He didn't have to lee - He just had to quote that bastion of lefty tree hugging propaganda, the Australian Industry Group. http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/biggrin.gif http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/lbill.gif

“The Australian Industry Group has said a new coal-fired power station – you’d need to double electricity prices to sustain it,” Bailey said.

--------------------
It's a tough gig being the only duck in the shooting gallery
PM
^
scepo
 Posted: Jul 17 2017, 03:32 PM
Quote


Supremo Poster


Group: Moderators
Posts: 15380
Member No.: 3
Joined: 21-July 11

Status: Offline
Rep: 65 pts






Our piss weak renewable energy schemes in this country survive on over a billion in subsidies.

I heard on the radio this morning that the cost of a new coal powered generator had been over estimated by a billion dollars.

Puts a different perspective on the whole situation.



QUOTE
It's an election year in QLD  and we've become used to the LNP 'flying kites' on proposals that they have no intention of following through on.



Can you put your hand on your heart Bill and state that the LNP are the only culprits in this regard? http://fairdinkumnewschat.com/rolleyes.gif

From where I am sitting experience tells me that Labor are more guilty than the LNP. http://fairdinkumnewschat.b1.jcink.com/uploads/fairdinkumnewschat/smiley_don_t_know.gif

--------------------
Everybody is Willing:
Some are willing to work, the rest are willing to let them!

The older I get, the better I was.
PM
^
Bear
 Posted: Jul 17 2017, 05:23 PM
Quote


Silver


Group: Active Member
Posts: 1743
Member No.: 79
Joined: 7-August 13

Status: Offline
Rep: 5 pts






Bailey said any sensible analysis of trends in the energy market would conclude that the price of renewable technologies was dropping, and battery technology was coming on at pace.

"While 'battery storage' is in the mix for the future,"

And what are the batteries made of?

"my understanding is that it's not even being considered for the current projects until it is required when existing 'coal fired' power stations reach the end of their life."

Thorium - we need to pay attention to what the rest of the world is doing.

Thorium - The future of Energy.



Two countries Two energy paths A lesson learned.


--------------------
Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently and all for the same reason.

~José Maria de Eça de Queiroz,

We live in a world in which politics has replaced philosophy. ~Martin L. Gross, A Call for Revolution, 1993

"Stupid people are like glow sticks: I wanna snap em and shake the shit outta them till the light comes on."
PM
^
Bear
 Posted: Jul 17 2017, 06:37 PM
Quote


Silver


Group: Active Member
Posts: 1743
Member No.: 79
Joined: 7-August 13

Status: Offline
Rep: 5 pts






From Lee's article.

In China, concerns over smog and climate change have prompted a move toward renewables, as have slowing economic growth and a gradual shift in the Chinese economy away from heavy manufacturing and toward consumer industries. The addition of domestic capacity, though large on paper, does not mean there will be growth in coal consumption. The current coal plants are operating far below capacity because demand for coal-generated power has slowed considerably.

But overseas, the Chinese are playing a different game.

Shanghai Electric Group, one of the country’s largest electrical equipment makers, has announced plans to build coal power plants in Egypt, Pakistan and Iran with a total capacity of 6,285 megawatts — almost 10 times the 660 megawatts of coal power it has planned in China.

The China Energy Engineering Corporation, which has no public plans to develop coal power in China, is building 2,200 megawatts’ worth of coal-fired power capacity in Vietnam and Malawi. Neither company responded to requests for comment.


https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/01/climate/china-energy-companies-coal-plants-climate-change.html

China plans to convert old coal power stations to thorium power stations.

Chinese atomic energy experts have announced an ambitious plan to begin turning the country’s coal plant infrastructure into working nuclear power stations. The first working demonstration unit could begin real commercial operations as early as 2018.

The plan could turn the growing Asian nation into one of the world’s most aggressive actors on climate change — though just as important to China is nuclear’s ability to help deal with its growing problem with air pollution. It could also kickstart the global nuclear industry, which was flagging even before the Fukushima disaster of five years ago. China may be about to prove that newly advanced nuclear tech offers a way for some large industrialized nations to dramatically reduce their carbon footprint without bankrupting themselves, or simply betting that solar and wind power will progress fast enough to matter at all on the global utility scale.

The news comes from this year’s High Temperature Reactor Conference, where Professor Zhang Zuoyi reportedly gave a talk on the subject, receiving a “sustained round of clapping,” complete with “a few hoots” from the gathered scientists. The reason for their enthusiasm should be obvious. Here, we could have a potential solution to the biggest practical problem with a large-scale pivot toward “Generation IV” nuclear designs with advance, passive safety systems: cost. Under the proposed plan, China can use re-use a huge proportion of the money it spent building coal plants, removing the furnaces and boilers from its super-critical coal plants and replacing them with the stripped-down hearts of high-temperature gas cooled nuclear reactors (HTGRs).

The coal stations targeted under this plan are numerous, but specific. Only super-critical steam plants are built to withstand the high operating temperatures HTGRs require. The early target stations should also be as close to population centers as possible — again, one of the main goals here is to reduce the health effects of coal plant air pollution, and you can’t accomplish that by reducing emissions in the middle of nowhere. So, if this plan is to actually go forward, it will need make a strong case for its own intrinsic safety.


user posted image
Germany’s THTR-300 high temperature gas-cooled reactor.

https://www.extremetech.com/extreme/239588-starting-2018-china-will-begin-turning-coal-plants-nuclear-reactors

Will China Convert Existing Coal Plants to Nuclear Using HTR-PM Reactors?

Converting coal-burning supercritical steam plants to nuclear power plants by replacing the furnaces and boilers with high temperature gas cooled reactors might become a routine power plant improvement in the relatively near future. The High Temperature Reactor – Power Module (HTR-PM) project is aimed at demonstrating the feasibility of this evolutionary concept.

At the recent High Temperature Reactor 2016 (HTR2016), held in Las Vegas, NV, Prof. Zhang Zuoyi, Director of China’s Institute of Nuclear and New Energy Technologies (INET), briefed his colleagues in the international community of high temperature gas reactor enthusiasts on the current status of the HTR-PM. That project is one of the more intriguing clean air projects underway in the world today.

................


Target Market

China’s HTR-PM project is squarely aimed at being a cost-effective solution that will virtually eliminate air pollution and CO2 production from selected units of China’s large installed base of modern 600 MWe supercritical coal plants.

This is not a “pie-in-the-sky” long range plan to eventually replace those built facilities and leave idle capital rotting away. Instead, it is a deployment program with the first of a kind commercial demonstration approaching construction completion and commercial operation by mid to late 2018. Major parts of the machinery will be able to be merged into the existing infrastructure.


http://www.theenergycollective.com/rodadams/2393647/will-china-convert-existing-coal-plants-to-nuclear-using-htr-pm-reactors

Australian research from 10 years ago, follow the link to read more....

Research Paper no. 11 2007–08

Thorium in Australia


There have been many experiments in countries including Germany, India, Japan, Russia, the United Kingdom and the USA seeking ways in which thorium may be used as a nuclear fuel. [27] These experiments began soon after the Second World War and thorium-fuelled reactors were trialled in the late 1970s and early 1980s.

........


Conclusion

There are several advantages for Australia in pursuing a thorium-based nuclear future in preference to the conventional uranium-based reactors that are now central to the nuclear and climate change debate.

However, with technical problems yet to be resolved, the current relative abundance of uranium, and an environmental movement opposed to any nuclear activities in Australia, a thorium-based nuclear future does not appear likely in the short to medium term.


http://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/rp/RP0708/08rp11

--------------------
Politicians and diapers should be changed frequently and all for the same reason.

~José Maria de Eça de Queiroz,

We live in a world in which politics has replaced philosophy. ~Martin L. Gross, A Call for Revolution, 1993

"Stupid people are like glow sticks: I wanna snap em and shake the shit outta them till the light comes on."
PM
^
lee
 Posted: Jul 17 2017, 06:47 PM
Quote


Klingonite


Group: Active Member
Posts: 6896
Member No.: 48
Joined: 15-February 12

Status: Offline
Rep: 17 pts






QUOTE
In China, concerns over smog and climate change have prompted a move toward renewables, as have slowing economic growth and a gradual shift in the Chinese economy away from heavy manufacturing and toward consumer industries. The addition of domestic capacity, though large on paper, does not mean there will be growth in coal consumption. The current coal plants are operating far below capacity because demand for coal-generated power has slowed considerably.


Yes Interesting.

"Many of the plants are in China, but by capacity, roughly a fifth of these new coal power stations are in other countries."

So about 560 of these new coal plants will be in China.

Currently coal plants are operating below capacity because of manufacturing downturn.

They are planning and building for the future.

Why would 540 new coal plants NOT require more coal? They are just adding to capacity that won't be used?

--------------------
Life is neither a race to the end, nor a slow ramble whose sole aim is longevity

Do not regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many.
PM
^
Michael.W
 Posted: Jul 17 2017, 08:53 PM
Quote


Diamond


Group: Active Member
Posts: 2499
Member No.: 58
Joined: 26-April 12

Status: Offline
Rep: 45 pts






I'm a strong believer in Nuclear power. Many countries have had it for decades and it has proven to be a better power provider and much cleaner.

I want to know the cost of destroying Solar panels when they are past their used bye date. We will have another major issue not thought out very well.
PM
^
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Topic Options
Pages: (2) 1 2 
Add Reply
New Topic
New Poll